084: #1 International Best-Selling Author and ‘Gain Changing’ Takeaways with Tom Camp

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Becoming a #1 International Best-Selling Author? Healing a dog with music? Moving abroad with two cats?

Yep! Those are just a few topics that Tom and I discuss in this dynamic and entertaining episode!

Plus…Tom has a special place on literally every episode of Copy That Pops!

Tune in to find out where!

A few exciting highlights include:
– Music Producer turned Best-Selling Author! Tom reveals how he hit bestseller on Amazon and shares his advice for new business book authors.
– Considering a one-way trip to work abroad as a digital nomad? Tom Camp is living in Thailand and has helpful advice.
– How to write a best selling book in 8 weeks or less and self publish it without stress.
– What is a Kindle publishing bestseller? And tips to write a bestselling book from Tom and Laura.
– Find out what it’s like in my Amazon best-seller course (now called Biz Book Secrets Masterclass, which lays out how to write, self-publish, and market a bestseller on Amazon in under 8 weeks) from someone who just went through it with huge wins.
– Keep leaving me feedback and let me know what you think of the show and you may hear a shoutout from me in a future episode! [Even if they aren’t nice…haha].

Take Action Now!

  1. Read how to improve your copy, if you’re a podcaster.  #1 Amazon Best-Selling Book
  2. Take the FREE 5-Day Training for How to Hit #1 Best-Seller on Amazon WITHOUT Experience or Ad Budget
  3. Check out Tom’s #1 best-selling book: The Gain Changer: A Foundation To A Better Mix


Tom Camp has been recording since the days of 4-track tape machines. Obsessed with music, Tom has been a recording artist, producer, mix engineer, and even co-hosts Recording Studio Podcast. To say that he is dedicated to music is an understatement.

“I understand the significance of your music, your recordings, and your art. It has always been my belief that when the world gives you a gift, that it is your responsibility to give that gift back to the world. Music is your gift and I want to help you share it.”

As a result of taking Biz Book Secrets, my Amazon Best-Seller book course on how to write a great nonfiction book in his niche, Tom can now add International #1 Best-Selling Author to his profile and biography.

Watch This Podcast Episode Via Video with Best-Selling Author, Tom Camp!

Great Quotes:

  • “That’s what is so beautiful about the time period that we live in!  You can create meaningful relationships with people through the connection of the internet!” – Tom Camp
  • “When you love doing something it’s really hard to charge for it and to charge accordingly.” – Tom Camp
  • “Everything seems like it can be a great opportunity. I think everything does have the potential to be a great opportunity, but there comes a point where you have to focus and make sure that everything you’re doing falls under that umbrella [your primary goal].” – Tom Camp
  • “For anyone who’s writing a self-help book, think about what you could’ve used, where you were lost, and what is that big thing that you could give yourself back then if you had a time machine.” – Tom Camp
  • “If you invest enough in them they will care enough to invest in you. I never had to ask anybody to check out my music because I already built up a personal relationship with my audience. By the time I would even think to ask they had already done it.” – Tom Camp
  • “If you invest enough in them, they will care enough to invest in you.” – Tom Camp
  • “It was a big lesson to see the power of personal investment.” – Tom Camp
  • “Audio is magic.” – Tom Camp
  • “Artists are 10% ego; 90% insecure.” – Tom Camp
  • “Give to the audience; serve them first.” – Tom Camp
  • “You have to try and fail at every single thing you do.” – Tom Camp
  • “Niche down as far as you possibly can.” – Tom Camp
  • “Get the course and just do it; don’t waste time.” – Tom Camp
  • “You have to start somewhere; one step at a time.” – Tom Camp
  • “You win or you learn.” – Laura Petersen

Links to Things Mentioned in This Podcast Episode with a New Best-Selling Author:

Connect Socially:

Guest: Tom Camp

Host: Laura Petersen
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Full Transcript to Read:

[Transcribed by Trint.com … please excuse typos]

Announcer (Dominick Sirianni): [00:00:00] Welcome to copy that pops the only podcast that goes deep into the psychology and strategies behind getting more traffic more conversions and more sales from your digital copy and marketing efforts.

Laura Petersen (host): [00:00:12] “Sawasdee,”everybody. That means ‘hello’ in Thai. And the reason I wanted to do that for my intro is today we have a very special guest. So this is a guy who is actually living in Thailand although he’s from the East Coast of the United States. He just moved to Thailand with his girlfriend and their two cats in February of 2017 to really live the digital nomad lifestyle which you guys if you’ve been listening to me for a while. No. I’m all about that. Actually this time last year as I’m recording this I was living in Rome with my husband and our little dog. So if you go back to episodes from July and August of 2016 you can hear shows during the time when my husband I were going from Italy to Ireland now why I wanted to have this guest on is several fold. So first thing is all around music. So he is a very experienced musician. He himself is a talented guitarist and singer but he also does a ton on the back end with music production and has worked with some amazing artists. He’s also responsible for the musical ensured outro of this very show. I fell so in love with the song Carolina sign that he did a little recap of parts of it so that I could use it for the insurance. Ouch off copy that pops. And today as we talk about his background we are going to talk a bit about music some fascinating things that I didn’t even realize that music could be an application for stay tuned for a story about curing a dog with a spinal injury.

Laura Petersen (host): [00:01:57] Not kidding. Amazing story. But the other reason I really wanted to bring Tom on is he just went through my course for how to become an Amazon Best selling author and he was an amazing success. He hit number one in all three of his categories. Three for three. He was number one in Amazon and he also hit number one in one of his categories in Germany. So he’s officially an international double international because he living abroad. I don’t know international best selling author on Amazon. Number one I’m so proud of him and the hard work that he put in. And he really shares a lot of amazing takeaways that you can apply if you’re thinking about writing a book and how to kind of push through it mentally to if you want to check out the course that Tom just went through and used for amazing success in go to copy that pop sitcom forward slash best seller. All right. So let’s jump into this awesome interview with Tom camp.

Laura Petersen (host): [00:02:55] Tom welcome to Copy That Pops. I’m so glad to finally have you on set before we do anything. I have to shut you out. You are the meaning producer behind the intern our show the show.

Tom Camp (guest): [00:03:09] Yes. And it’s I shoulda plugged my guitar and gave a little .

Laura Petersen (host): [00:03:13] I know you should sing it live! That would be so cool

Tom Camp (guest): [00:03:15] One day – when I feel a little better.

Laura Petersen (host): [00:03:19] Ya, I know – what have you been suffering from? A flu?

Tom Camp (guest): [00:03:23] Yah, a little sore throat, head cold, congestion — stuff like that but —

Laura Petersen (host): [00:03:27] You’re feeling a little bit better today and pushing through. Yeah.

Tom Camp (guest): [00:03:31] Definitely — I just turned thirty two days ago and I was incredibly sick. I didn’t do anything. I always sat around and watch Planet the Apes movies all morning which was the first time I’ve ever seen them but it was fine because I was able to celebrate being the newest best seller on Amazon. So it was pretty cool. So thank you for your course.

Laura Petersen (host): [00:03:53] Oh my goodness. My pleasure. And we’re going to dive super into your hitting best seller in more than one category. But before we get into those juicy details which I’m sure people are trying to hear — I thought it was fun to talk about how we met because you’ve done the music since the very first episode and maybe even working on something for a little updated musical intro in the future.

Tom Camp (guest): [00:04:16] Yes.

Laura Petersen (host): [00:04:17] But let’s talk about how we met.

Tom Camp (guest): [00:04:20] Yes so we were — um — I remember… I really wanted to launch my website Digital Recording School for a long time — since probably 2000…ah, I’d say 2014. And I didn’t launch it until two weeks ago. So it really shows you the amount of kind of struggles that you kind of hold yourself back from. But at one point about I’d say year and three months ago a Facebook ad popped up for Bryan Harris’s list building course the Rapid List Building Course and it was one of the only online courses that I bought and I bought it. And I went in there and you and I immediately started interacting on there. And I think you had posted that you were looking to start a mastermind group. That you know read about. You read about I think in in probably like thinking grow rich or something like that. But you wanted to try the idea of like doing a mastermind Why would anyone be interested. And you me and Melissa Sue Tucker then started the mastermind group when we started meeting weekly which was really cool to kind of kind of watch where we all were. You know a year ago when we first kind of went in that first google hangout called not really knowing each other not knowing anything about each other and our goals and to see like the amount of growth and you know the amount of just all the different crazy things that happened in our life.

Tom Camp (guest): [00:05:40] I remember the big struggle with the group when we first started was you know coordinating the meetings with you because you’d be in Germany one week in Italy the next in Europe and it just so cool to see you kind of kind of bouncing all over the place. But then you know you’ve put that you planted that seed in my head because you said you know go get the four hour work week and go go you know start reading and do that and stuff like that and it was because of that and that push that we ended up eventually moving to Chiangmai Thailand where my girlfriend I are living now. So that’s pretty cool. Pretty exciting. You know a year and a half.

[00:06:17] Yeah. And just to place people in time because they might hear this years later after we recorded it so we’re at the very end of July and 2017. Yeah. And we made us and Brian Harris’s Rapide listed in course it must be in February or March of 2006 Tina Yeah. And that’s funny. It’s really interesting because that’s the first course I also bought because I had been an entrepreneur for four and half five years before that but I tried to bootstrap everything and I never wanted to spend any money on anything. I was just like no I can’t lose money. I can do everything for free but everything has taken me so long and so that course is finally the first thing that I was like. You know what maybe if I put money out there more will come back and I’ll learn faster things that actually is worth the money. Like the time I save. So that’s amazing. That’s how we met too.

[00:07:11] Yeah it was. It was just it is funny because it’s just one of those things her universe kind of comes together because I wasn’t spending money on on any courses either you know I wasn’t buying anything. And for some reason I was just like you know that’s something that I wanted to to learn I knew that e mail building and e-mail list was important and it really funny to think about that long ago you know February that you know I built several web sites since then and have gone down the I guess entrepreneurial road route of kind of becoming a digital nomad and things like that. And it’s funny to think about how little I knew back then that I felt like I needed to know where do I even start to. Well it’s an email service provider you know like Rush and stuff like that. And it’s it’s pretty interesting to see like how far we’ve come with learning and stuff like that.

[00:07:59] Yeah that’s so cool. And then Melissa so to paint this picture a little bit more for people to you. I was living abroad in Germany when we met. You were living in New Jersey right.

[00:08:10] Terribly dark times tough times and Melissa was in Scottsdale Arizona. So the three of us had never met in person. I met Melissa in a different Facebook group I met you in the Rapid this building. And then the three of us jumped on a call together and we’ve been biz buddies since then and you and I have still never met in person.

[00:08:30] Ironically our Melissa and person I’m going to answer that. Yeah I haven’t heard Jason. Her husband Jason they’re looking to come come visit at some point this year that will be really cool. But it’s funny that you can. That’s what’s so beautiful about the time period that we live in. It’s you can create these you know meaningful relationships with people through the connection of the Internet and you know I feel closer with YouTube than I do with you know my neighbors that I grew up next to you know it’s just a very very interesting time to be alive. Jerry is right we live in the best time period that we can possibly ever know.

[00:09:03] So true. There’s tons that we need to improve but I wouldn’t want to be alive any other time than now so yeah definitely going to that I’m sure. OK so tell us. I don’t want to get too dark dark times.

[00:09:17] But tell us to tell us a little bit about the transition from New Jersey to Chiangmai Thailand where you are now OK.

[00:09:25] So you and Melissa pretty much kicked me in my ass in a single week. I would jump on the call. I would be just depressed and I’m never gonna leave New Jersey I’m never going to leave my job I’m going to be stuck at you know doing this forever and all that stuff. And I remember it kind of got to the point. The one time where you just cut me off and you’re like I’m done Listen to this shit.

[00:09:49] It’s like you need to. You have to be positive.

[00:09:53] You know and you Melissa are really just kind of kind of steered my my thinking you know my thinking to be better and kind of kind of allowed me to use a power more of like her attitude and really being able to see put in that put in the plan and action. And you know recommending different books and stuff like that so it was really it was good because it was super helpful. And then when I remember I’d get on those those calls with you guys when I was planning on moving I I thought I either wanted to move to because I’m in the music and the show I’ve been doing production for a long time so you don’t want to move to Nashville Austin L.A. or New York City you know one of those like kind of big music towns big music areas. But it just seemed like such an impossibility and why you guys were kind of just because of you know finances and you know having debt and things like that and you have. And it’s funny because well. Well it’s funny because eventually we ended up moving 10000 miles away with two cats something no one does you know. So we ended up moving to Thailand we were afraid to move you know a couple hours which is where furniture’s the exile to move wherever until we finally just kind of buckled down and made it happen.

[00:11:07] So it’s really cool for me I think that the big one was was that four hour work week that you know you pushed him first and seeing the ability to leverage you know the different economies and where he really kind of spoke with me or spoke to me was when he talked about he’s a very defiant person. You know he looks for loopholes and he looks for going against the grain and stuff like that and I’ve always been that way naturally. So for me it was like it makes sense to move ten thousand miles away even though everybody in my family all my friends are going to tell me I’m crazy it just kind of like don’t do it. Yeah exactly. So yes pretty pretty interesting journey.

[00:11:46] So I know one that told you about forwork that he hadn’t heard that before. Oh that’s the main thing.

[00:11:51] I had heard about it. But just like in passing from a.. I didn’t really associate with a lot of people who were like well-read or anything like that. I mean I I guess a couple but more so politically based historically based not not on like the self-help or business or entrepreneurial you know world and stuff like that. And I’ve always it’s it’s funny my girlfriend I were just joking about this the other day and I’m all I was telling her about how I kind of always had that entrepreneurial streak with with wanting to do things that I was good at. But just knowing when something was a waste of time and not developing it. Growing up my parents would go out and you know they worked for summer. I would be at home I’d be home alone. You know 14 15 years old and they would be out working and they were like Listen like we need you to mow the lawn. And I’m like you know we need to pitch in or around the house and I be like OK well we have like two acres.

[00:12:47] So like if we had to pay me to build on Woodstock Let’s talk business here or so they would they would pay me twenty five dollars a week and leave me money for pizza. So what I did is I had called my my friend Kevin and I said hey you know do you want $25 pizza. Come on my lawn and he would say well how about if you pay me 20 you keep $5 for yourself will eat the pizza. And I said OK but the thing is my parents can never know. Like your mom has to drop you off when they go to work pick you up beforehand will have a good day you know. Abayas food the whole thing so I was always and then kept the $5 but was honest. It’s like I wasn’t like sleazy in that way but it was always how can I go around doing not doing something you know that I don’t want to do and not some kind of things like that but it’s. And it’s funny you know kind of all or have that kind of I guess a streak in us.

[00:13:39] I love that all. I feel like my brother was more like I was like the nerdy get studies like do the right thing kind of thing. But once I was 21 and I read Richard Porter That was the first book that changed my whole paradigm I was like oh well there’s so many more things I want to do and I kind of like surge a breakaway from that academia side of things. And then when I read the four hour workweek you know few hours later I couldn’t believe someone had put into words things that I was thinking and hadn’t fully formulated all the way. But it was like exactly where I was going I was like I couldn’t believe it.

[00:14:12] So I’m glad that it resonated especially with the travel because I love travel so much.

[00:14:19] Yeah I had never had I mean I never had that four hour work week wasn’t something that like like I would agree with I think it’s amazing when you read something that kind of validates some a way that you’ve thought before for me that was like George Carlin. You know I remember seeing a George Carlin special and being like oh my god this is how it like it’s that’s how I think. I didn’t get that from for our week for our week. For me it was just like a total push of growth because it was it was just like this guy is so right you know about everything that he’s saying. And I think that it is. It can be emulated you know and I think that it’s been proven where people kind of see it as an impossibility now. Most of the old school people the second I said I threw that out there all they heard was Oh you want to work for four hours a week. They didn’t get the full scope of the message. And I mean sure. So it’s it’s just it’s just different times that people and I mean some of the people that I see making money online and you know what they’re doing online to create income and you know build legacies and empires.

[00:15:19] It’s crazy. You know so. So tell us a little bit about what you were doing in terms of work and making money in New Jersey and then what you’re doing now in Thailand.

[00:15:30] And is it the same different health that so it was it was split between. I was working at a title insurance company at the time I was working with my aunt and I hated the job. You know I was fortunate to have it in the fact that that I learned a lot but it’s just not something that I was passionate about I wasn’t passionate about that business. And I think also being that she opened in 2007 and then the mortgage crash happened in 2008 and working so closely with the banks and seeing some of the things that was happening like on the inside of that and seeing what was what had kind of caused some of that like market collapse and stuff like that and people not being held accountable for it it gave me a little bit of a taste at this stage for that for that industry. So I really wasn’t passionate about it but I was passionate for the music. But the thing about the music is that it is really hard for me to monetize on that and charge accordingly what my time was worth because I loved doing it. So when you love doing something it’s kind of really hard to find that that area of where you can kind of step out of that you know and charge for it you know and charge accordingly. But I did start to do that again as I say I’ll say you know Melissa we’re a big help with that too because I started to really kind of take myself more seriously and really you know start to kind of figure out what I could offer.

[00:16:51] But the thing that I notice was that I couldn’t I couldn’t launch digital recording school. I couldn’t record bands which was the other thing that I was doing during recording production mixing and all that stuff. I couldn’t record bands I couldn’t launch digital recording school and I couldn’t work my full time job effectively doing all three at the same time it just didn’t work. You know I was either doing one really well or being half assed across all of them. And then as I started doing digital recording school and I know that you relate to this because you’ve had to talk me down the ledge a couple of times when I would you know all of a sudden I’d build a web site and I’d say I know how to build websites. Now let me do that for people or I know how to do this and you know it’s it’s kind of go the way our minds work I think and very similar is where we speak the language of opportunity so everything kind of seems like it can be a great opportunity. And I think everything does have the potential to be a great opportunity but there comes a point where you have to kind of focus and you know throw things. Make sure everything you’re doing falls under that umbrella. And I remember Melissa had said said to me you know like don’t do websites unless it falls under the umbrella of music. Don’t do this unless it falls under the lake. Make sure that you’re dedicating this strong percent of your time to something that falls under the umbrella so I had to get focused.

[00:18:09] You know I had to get focus on that but when I left the title job I started gigging out. I started playing playing KOHONA and drums for the summer. And what is that conscious like this box. It’s a box but I I played with this guy who played acoustic guitar. I really didn’t love it over the summer but it was decent enough money and it was still falling under that umbrella. So I didn’t mind making the money for it and making sure that I was still doing something musically at the time. And then I was that summer I tracked Drew Williams’s record which you can check him out on Spotify incredible artist that was like my. Yeah that was my that was my big project. And he’s actually launching his record this year. He just launched his first single back in April. The song shadow. He’s really really talented very versatile musician. So I had done his record and that involve me flying down to Florida working out of a couple multimillion dollar studios down in Orlando. He had flown up to New Jersey twice. We worked at of my home studio so it was a really really big project. And then I was doing a little bit more recording. But the point was I needed to work I needed to save. I needed to sell all of my stuff and I needed to make this moving to Thailand a reality so that I can move wherever my cost of living is low enough so I can get laser focused on the recording school.

[00:19:29] So what happened was as we ended up moving in February so took all that time from July to February we knew we wanted to move. We didn’t know where we wanted to move. It wasn’t until December that we finally said or I’m sorry in November that we had sat down and said you know what let’s just do Thailand. You know it seems like a cool place to start. Cost of living is low. We can really get focused on our goals.

[00:19:50] So we had done that and you could check out some of our some of our videos there on ex-pats with cats dogs barking dogs and cats is like the best scrappy name I’ve ever heard. Yeah that’s that’s all. And I got to give credit where credit is due. Yeah. So it’s it’s it’s pretty cool though that we were able to do that.

[00:20:09] But when we landed in Bangkok we spent the next three months just being laser focused buying courses on YouTube the learning video editing you know learning more things about web site developing learning some stuff about SEO learning marketing. Now we got a couple on tap to learn about like Facebook ads and stuff like that. So it was it was almost like we went to college but like a super more concentrated focused version of it because for me college never really worked because it just I guess I don’t very go against the grain. So if I want to go study music I don’t want to have to take an English class or math class or something like that I want to learn what I need to learn that I know is going to be you know actionable for me. So we had gotten really laser focused. We studied for about three months and then after that three months is when we started to put things in action. And the first was you approaching me with your course on you know the bestselling Amazon which was really cool for me to see you do that because I remember back when you had launched the had you had hatched the idea you got on the call with Melissa and I. You hadn’t talked about writing a book at all before it was never even something that you were just like hey guys this is what I’m doing.

[00:21:21] There wasn’t even like you asked like do you think this is a good idea like we would normally do like in our group you’re just like here’s what I’m doing in 30 days I’m going to launch a book and it’s going to be on Amazon and we were just like OK all right let’s let’s see it.

[00:21:34] You know Amber you said something like you were going to give me advice like maybe you shouldn’t but I was so convicted in it that you were just like OK yeah now do it.

[00:21:44] I thought 30 days was a really aggressive goal. You know I thought maybe you should certainly something more realistic and then I would say now not be unreasonable. You know do that like. So yeah I just kind of let you run with it because I was in my mind I was like maybe I should tell her. You know I don’t want I didn’t want you to be let down if you hit 45 or 60 days. But you you nailed it. You knocked it out of park. So when you would come to me with that I was like you know what maybe I should take a book you know write a book on in my field and try to hit the bestsellers mark and then that’s when you introduced me to the course and then it happened. It’s amazing. So it was great. Thank you so much for that.

[00:22:23] My pleasure. I’m so excited.

[00:22:25] Ok so I want to look down at my notes because I have a bunch of questions I would ask you. OK. So. OK. Around writing the book actually sitting down to right and yours is also you and a lot of bonus resources with a video element that people can go and watch because what you do is so visually you know it’s such a visual component and it’s really important for people to see what you’re doing. So tell us a little bit about the book and maybe even the process of sitting down to write it.

[00:22:55] OK. So the book is called The Game Changer. And the reason why I called it The Game Changer you know like it’s like a game changer in audio recording the foundation of a recording is something called a gain staging. And I do this four step process where you get your files to the right level before you start mixing. Then you get a balance on your mix which is just you adjusting the volume of each individual thing and the song so in like a recording session. Sometimes I have like 96 tracks of different things guitars vocals. I mean when I when I produce a song and mix a song there’s a lot that goes into that layer wise. So what happens is was all those things start to stack on top of each other it becomes a mess. So mixing is is cleaning all of that up and making sure that everything has its space and gels well together to make this kind of you know more well together sound. I can tell you that the song on your on your show copy that pops Carolina son that had about 70 something tracks to it. We had a ton of drum microphones a ton of bass mikes a ton of guitars. We had a ton of vocal production. There’s probably like like 30 or 40 vocal tracks on it that blend to sound like this one thing. So because of that you have to be able to get a balance and then the next part of my gain staging was consistent monitoring because so monitoring is what you listen to music.

[00:24:25] So in order to be consistent you hear different frequencies and songs at different volumes so you’ll hear music differently if it’s really loud in your car or really quiet. So I recommend when people mix music they want to be able to hear accurately they need to be able to monitor at that level consistently. So it’s a little technical but it makes sense. So then the next thing was was something called game matching but everything’s about gain. So that’s why I call it The Game Changer to kind of give it a little bit of that like kind of sales copy thing. Now where I struggled was writing the book was I knew that I wanted to target you know people who were at home who were just getting in in the recording. When I was 17 years old I’d say 16 17 years old I knew that I really wanted to get in the recording but I was in high school and at the time YouTube didn’t exist there was no YouTube yet. There were no books but like how could you really learn how to how to listen with a book you know which is why I kind of incorporated a lot of the video series in my book and stuff like that. And then there were forms where like you just weren’t getting good information. So I think about that version of myself and what I could have used that shortcut that I could have used to kind of help get me there faster because it took me every bit of you know I’ve been doing this for 20 years.

[00:25:43] Took me a long time to kind of get good and good at the craft so I wanted to be able to give that younger version of myself that aha moment so I don’t want to write it too technical and talk about like all the advanced characteristics of of mixing I wanted to find that middle ground that I would like could speak to the beginner but could also pull them to the point that they were like a little bit more advanced so I struggled with the writing in that aspect but I think I made the right choice with trying to communicate with with that younger version of myself which anyone that’s writing a book that’s like kind of self-help or anything like that really take that into consideration I think that’s a really big tip I can give you is think about think about what you could have used that where you were lost and what was that big kind of thing that you could that you could give yourself back then if you had a time machine. So that kind of cleared it up for me was being able to do that.

[00:26:34] I love that approach because then it gives you space to also write the next book or the next book or you could have like a three part series Riego in short medium and then advance if you try to just get it all out one. You might lose some people on the way it might overwhelm yourself at all the writing you to do and then you don’t give yourself space maybe expand on it later. I really like that approach is like just think of something that was not Ganor but has an interest and then take them to a certain point and that is your book.

[00:27:01] Yeah exactly. And I wanted to be unique in my industry I wanted it to maybe not like unique like stand out as being like something crazy different or anything like that but I want my approach to be different.

[00:27:13] I I want to be able to incorporate a little bit of humor at times. And I didn’t necessarily in this book because it’s kind of like the intro but I want to be able to kind of incorporate a little bit of that humor. I wanted to be able to not just give people a book to read but a video series you know an email series some something to actually put into action at the end of the book. I also wanted to give them my email. You know I know that that’s crazy to do in a book. But like here’s my email shoot me your mix when you’re done and then let me listen to it. You know me. Let me hear how I can help you. So. For me I didn’t just want to give people information I wanted to give them like connectivity to me and to be able to help them grow beyond that which I think is going to bring me in my my next point that I that I want to make as far as my marketing strategy when I gave the book away before I even sold it for a whole week. I went into audio groups and I went in the forms and I went in places where people were hanging out. And I was just like hey guys like here’s my story here’s what I’m looking to achieve with it. You know like here’s my back story of me is like a 17 year old kid if you relate to that you know cool kind of that little background. Here’s what I’m trying to achieve with it.

[00:28:23] I really want to be able to help that that person I want to be able to help you guys. I’m not looking for any of your money. I’m not looking for anything other than your time. And let me know that it works for you and I hope it helps. And I gave away about a hundred and something copies something like that. And then when I finally launched a week later they had a week to sit with it. They were already interacting with me. I just pushed an e-mail out and just said hey you know if you like the book I just want live on Amazon if you could do me a favor and you know drop me a review pick it up and you know I’d appreciate it. And I was like and if you know if you don’t want to spend 99 cents because you already have it for free that that’s fine. I don’t blame me I don’t really want to. It’s a double cheeseburger. If you needed all the cheese you know it’s totally fine if you don’t want to do that so I found that the response that I receive from giving to them first and genuinely caring about about them and their growth. Before I even launched was huge because it gave them. They knew that I was in it for them you know. They knew that I was kind of in it for them right away that they knew that I wasn’t just trying to sell them something. So it was it was really cool. I really really enjoyed the process.

[00:29:30] And then even asking for views or asking for them to go and buy it with our expectation I think is so important because you can feel it if you’re like hey I just gave you this. Come on. Help me out. Versus like hey. No pressure. But if you know the spirit moves you it really helped me out. But no pressure and like not truly not being attached to the outcome. I feel like people can really feel that. And not to act like you’re not attached just to get that outcome it’s like you have to really just really not care and I feel like yeah I feel like I’ve learned that just over my years of life where you can’t expect everything from people and it’s not because if they let you down it’s not because they meant you like you don’t know what else is going on in people’s lives or sometimes like I’m going through something really rough with like a family member and some and maybe ask for something of me and I don’t get back to them and I don’t even look at the message for like two months if they’re really mad at me like I feel bad but I’m sorry you didn’t know what else is going on and I had to give my attention to. So I feel like just having that approach with everyone you deal with and not taking it personally if someone doesn’t do something that you hope that they will and just knowing for another life and yeah it all goes around comes around in a great way no matter what.

[00:30:43] Just move forward yeah I think I think one of my biggest lessons in marketing was back and I’m going to date myself here. 2008 Yeah 2008 2009 I was in a pop punk band like a Fall Out Boy style band and.

[00:31:07] You know all my friends were in bands you know local bands they play out and they would bring they would bring a lot of people out to the shows like you know to 300 people out to their shows.

[00:31:17] But the thing is it’s those people you know there was a big local crowd. You know they had they’d made their splash in the local market. I got on MySpace and I really hit the streets hard with marketing. I spent three hours a day online and I made sure that I had a little post that said six hundred and every day I had to interact with 600 new people. And when I interacted with them I never did the whole cheesy check out my music saying or like here’s my new single or anything like that. I just reached out and I said like hey how’s your day. I saw your doing this like what’s good. And I started interacting with people and my friends thought I was nuts at the time because like what are you doing like just sitting around like talking to people all day you know and the for me it was like what like. And I remember my one from particular said Like why would you like. Why do you even care. You know and I’m just sick why wouldn’t you like that your That’s your lifeline to what your goals are to what you’re doing and if they care enough if you invest enough in them they will care enough to invest in you. I never had to ask anybody like hey will you check out my music because I’ve already built up you know a little bit of a personal relationship with them by the time I would even think to ask they had already you know done it bought something shared and things like that.

[00:32:31] So it was really really cool because we were able to take it from 0 to 1.5 million plays in under a year just by reaching out to people internationally. You know we weren’t concentrating in that little area. And when we actually did play like our first show we had people driving three four hours from at a town to come to come see us. So I remember the first show we play we had to 86 people come out and it was like no that’s not the 300 people but to me those 86 they meant more because I had more of a commitment to what I was to what I was doing than you know my friends bands locally that were bringing you know 300 people out. So even though it’s a bigger number it’s more about serving your audience a little better because you’ll get more out of all those 300 people that would go to my friends shows. They wouldn’t drive more than you know they would and drive three or four hours ago to go see them because they’re they weren’t personally invested enough. So for me that was like a big a big lesson to see the power of kind of personal investment and using social media as a platform for that. I think Justin to Justin Bieber is like a huge kind of I guess example of that one of my favorite movies was Justin Bieber Never Say Never admitted that publicly but on.

[00:33:46] I haven’t seen it watching. Now I want to.

[00:33:48] Well it’s so inspiring because he says you know you think of Bieber and you think like this you know bratty pops or something like that but when he was a kid the kid was really really dedicated and he every single label said no to him like they were not signing him they said Now you need to sign with Disney if they’re not going to sign you. No one will because you’re a kid he was 13 14 years old. But Scooter Braun who’s a brilliant brilliant music business guy that’s it it’s his manager. He just he just kept at it. And Justin had built up a giant Twitter following before he ever even had a song out. He just had a couple of covers you know YouTube acoustic guitar covers and it just him as a kid not even anything professionally done. But he was building the personal relationship with his fan base without music. So then when the label when it came time for the label it’s like how do you not sign this kid he’s he’s got he’s got the fan base. You know it’s plug and play for investment for them. So for me it’s like that all that stuff it means something you have to be able to kind of be able to personally invest in your audience. So I think that that’s a big thing that I would say for the people who are going to take your course and or who are going to write the book. You need the right from a place of kind of wanting to give to that audience.

[00:35:05] Definitely keep that in mind if that’s the area that I should say you’re going for.

[00:35:10] Yeah yeah definitely. I feel like the ideal client for me in the course is someone who is an entrepreneur and who wants to have a tool that’s an amazing marketing tool but also can be used for other things so you could you like free plus shipping like Russell Brunson or can be a free option on your website or it could be something you just you know give when you see someone who’s maybe like interacting with you and maybe struggling a little bit you know like here just this is free just why you know help me out. There’s so many ways you can use the book and you’re kind of touching on some of that. Yeah.

[00:35:46] Well I tell you my biggest when I know this week I’m I’m not going to. I don’t want to say his name but in my audio space now. Let me actually let me backtrack. I launched the site two weeks ago. All right so I launched digital recording school two weeks ago. I launched the book about a week ago. It hit number one in a couple of multum many categories.

[00:36:10] Let me jump ahead.

[00:36:11] I don’t know the set you know it hit number one in all three out of your three categories in the United States and and also hit number one in a category in Germany Sierre an international number one Amazon Best selling author.

[00:36:25] Woo hoo. Yeah that’s all. So just being able to say that is like it. It’s you know it’s really really cool.

[00:36:32] And going into it I think the trick was not to not to overwhelm myself with that before I went into it. You know if you think like all I kept telling myself in my head as I was writing the book was like I find myself getting stressed that I only had like writing a book like this will be perfect. I was like man you just creating a PDA. Just chill you done that at work. You know like like kind of step back and don’t don’t kind of wake yourself out with it.

[00:36:55] But that’s what I did see what I thought of it as just I’m writing 15 blog articles. Like 15 really good blog articles that have a common theme I’m going to put them together put an inch or an out show out of it. That’s it like yeah. I love how you thought about that too.

[00:37:10] Yes so my big win this week was so I set it up with you know I’ve only had the book out for a week. I had a website out for two weeks. Seriously probably the top person in my industry reached out to me to say that he read the book. Congratulations on the book. He thought it was great. He loved what I was doing and he just kind of wanted to open up the line of communication.

[00:37:33] So for me that in my industry where this guy sits is that’s kind of like the equivalent of if you were to enter like the podcasting world and then all of a sudden Pat Flynn calls you a week later after you watch the show. So it was like I’m seeing the traction happening fast because of the buzz that’s happening from from you know having to the badge and taking a course yes. Really cool. Well you reveal the name or no not yet. Yeah I’m sure I’m sure someday. I just I feel a little weird trying that out especially in the beginning. It feels a little too like bragging right about now. Yeah yeah yeah. Yes so put it. It’s just amazing because it shows me that if I’m able to reach somebody who’s so important in my industry and in my space then I’m definitely and it wasn’t just a congratulations on the thing it was. I read the book. I really like what you said in this section. I liked it so it was like if I was able to grab that person’s attention that I know that I’m going to be able to grab more people in my audience and serve them better so it was a really nice vote of confidence and something that if I didn’t if I didn’t just finally put put my plan into action and stop putting myself down and letting myself be in my own head then I’d still be in the same place that I was in 2014 waiting to watch the site you know. So it’s really cool to kind of see the progress that’s really exciting for this year.

[00:38:59] It’s going to be a great year.

[00:38:59] I know.

[00:39:00] I mean like all this we’re talking about has literally happened like the past two weeks like as are talking heading bestseller internationally. Amazing guy reaches out to you. Like high in your field your e-mail list is growing. What are some of the other benefits that you’re seeing from tonight on.

[00:39:16] I hit 378 e-mail subscribers in two weeks which you know I mean by it by no means is that like holy crap we’ve got the biggest loser in the world. But it’s like that’s people that I wasn’t in contact with two weeks ago and they’re there they’re dedicated they’re sending me emails. You know I’m getting about five to seven e-mails a day. Excuse me.

[00:39:39] In about five to seven e-mails a day from different people that are just like saying Hey thank you or you know like all the edges to this new mix like listen to what I what I did after I did your book because I told them send me a before and after somebody take something you’ve already worked on and let me hear like you know how it helps you so that’s really able to give me like a tangible point with them and then I asked them of course you know the age old question of like what are they struggling with now so I can help them with the next thing. So it has been really really cool. The book was something that I had never considered. Because when you had suggested to me write a book I can’t do that my my field it’s mixing I need to be able to hear. And then when I saw it well but just because it’s a book doesn’t mean I can’t be innovative doesn’t mean I can’t be unique doesn’t mean I can’t put my own spin. So I made sure that everything was in writing and then I made sure that the version of the transcription along with the audio there was a video that led outside the book. So it was I think it was a really cool approach because it was able to give people more value.

[00:40:43] You know like one of the reviews that I got said This book is 40 pages and what I love about the book is and I’m not quoting it directly but it said something like what I love the book is that it wasn’t like you know convoluted it wasn’t a 150 page book in the email or the video series within the book made its worth its weight in gold. So it’s it’s cool to kind of offer those those cool unique things on top of it add more value. So I would kind of recommend that for people to you know kind of linking different things outside of the book into it you know make it multimedia almost because you can.

[00:41:18] It’s the same age especially if you publish it online like something so big like Amazon using K.P. which is Kindle trick publishing. You don’t even have to have a printed version to have your book up and give it up.

[00:41:30] Well yeah I remember now my one of my best friends that I grew up with. Her name is Allison and she wrote a book. She wrote a book all throughout high school. It was kind of like her high school project and when she got out of high school she ended up releasing it. Now this was I want to say 2007.

[00:41:50] You know what I’m not even sure the year but it was it was a while ago what she had to go through to release that book going through publishers and getting it printed. And you know you have to put up capital for that yet to find you know different proofreaders and it’s just like all of this crazy stuff with formatting. And then like I said when I was doing it it’s just I’m just making a PTF because Amazon makes it so accessible and easy and even for the people who aren’t tech savvy just it’s just awesome. So and then I know you pointed me in that direction because I wrote it and I book’s author and then I found out that you couldn’t use books author with Kindle. So you pointed me to go to fiber and I think I hired someone for like 20 books to be able to convert it over and it was like you know just just easy very very easy to do it. Yeah. Now one of the things I will say about the multimedia stuff is the downside of that is that people who own black and white Kindle the black and white Kindle editions which is a large majority they can’t watch videos on them. But all of them have access to a computer so they know. Because I tell them in the book that they can get the videos on the computer you know and they get the link or I’ll get e-mails that say hey can you email me over you know the video or whatever.

[00:43:00] But I’m I think the book is evergreen and the fact that guess I every Kindle is going to be able to play a movie in another you know year two or three years and it’s going to be sitting there so it’s not a bad idea to write for the future I don’t think anyone’s going to get the book in them because if they can’t watch it on a Kindle they’re going to find a way to watch the video. Yeah. You know for sure I don’t let that deter somebody.

[00:43:26] Oh yeah for sure. That’s off them. Where did you finally see. Where did you find the absolute hardest part of writing the book.

[00:43:41] For me it was two things walking the line of of putting in too much sales copy I don’t want to be too salesmen. But I knew that the idea that I was I was selling you know in the book the idea that the way that I approach mixing was something that isn’t really overly well-known. It’s something that is a little bit under attack recently because some people have been misusing it and things like that.

[00:44:13] But I I knew that I had to win people over on my way of thinking before they tried it. So I wanted to obviously put a lot of sales copy in it and I wanted to win them over. But I didn’t want to do it in a way that it was a little too cheesy or anything like that. So for me walking that fine line was was decently difficult. But then the other thing was mixing mixing can be very scientific audio engineering There’s a reason why they call it engineering it’s it’s it can be extremely scientific. Some of the things that I could tell you about the science of audio just not even related to music.

[00:44:48] It’s crazy how you can be like a teenager able just that people can conceptualize what you mean.

[00:44:54] I give you two things and I love this stuff and I know my girlfriend’s going to roll her eyes behind me. I talked about this for 500 time but I’m in audio there’s something called phase. So phase means is your waveform looks like this. We all know what a wave form looks like kind of like science sign or cosign wave. Yeah. So you have like the what is it the crest and the trough. If I have a snare drum right and I am a microphone down or down at the snare drum I can put a microphone under the snare drum too and Mike the bottom of it. But because the mikes are aimed at a different section the waveform is now reaching it in a different way that those two wave forms are considered at a phase. So now the waves should be going like this together but instead they’re going reverse.

[00:45:45] So if people are just listening to this they should be kind of going in unison an almost like track each other yes.

[00:45:51] But I said that they’re sort of going opposite their tropicals a fixer meeting. Yes. OK. OK. Like I said a little technical but when two when a sound is completely what they call 180 degrees out of phase meaning they’re completely opposite. So the wave the two waves under each other look symmetrical the sound completely cancels out you’ll hear no sound no matter how loud it hits. So that again so if to wave for like a week you think it came from the same drum. If you record that and you put two microphones on that if two wave forms are directly out of phase they cancel out. You hear no sound well no matter how loud the sound source is. So one of the coolest things that they did was when they were doing some of the first flight tests things that they were doing the engines were really loud they were creating a really low rumble. And because of that low frequency it was vibrating the engine of the plane. So it was making the plane in essence fall apart. Screws were falling apart. Things like that. So how they solved it was they figured out they said through an audio engineer to figure out the frequency that the engine was creating the sound and then they aim to speakers at the engines so that they were out of phase and canceled the sound out. So now there was no sound because they were playing at the same time at a face.

[00:47:26] So it’s crazy technical that recycle magic that it is that and I always I always say that I always say you know what I do and you know I’ve been doing this for 20 years and audio is magic. One other really cool cool thing and I know you’re going to love this because you’re an animal lover. Our dog had an accident. He was paralyzed from the neck down a little little under because he could still use his front legs with his back legs were completely completely useless. He could not move them. And we were really distraught about it. This was when we lived in Florida probably about three four years ago. So our little dog he was. He was a Chihuahua. So he was paralyzed and we took him to the emergency room. And at the time I mean we had we had no money. We had I mean just no money. So we had gone to the emergency room and they told us if we wanted to get him surgery it was going to be $8000. So there was no way we can afford that. But they recommended us seeing a holistic doctor who had some experimental things that he did. And they said you know he’s really highly recommended. But he can do things a lot cheaper. So we had gone there. We had gone and he walks in and he says OK first of all I have to kind of tell you full disclosure I have to give you the the you know kind of the I guess who am I going to wear that disclaimer. So you had to give me the disclaimer. And he goes this there’s a chance that this will work. But there’s also a chance that it might not work.

[00:49:03] You know nothing that I do is backed by the FDA yada yada yada. He goes but in a nutshell here’s what I do and he like start saying some audio terms and I say wait a second are you telling me that you’re going to aim a device that figures out the resonant frequency of dog spinal cord until it regrows.

[00:49:21] And he says you’re an audio engineer and I said yes. And then like my eyes lit up and we sort of like you know it was like a bromance immediately romance. And my girlfriend was like this isn’t going to work this is going to work and I’m like this is going to work and I told her I was like your the Spanish Nikola Tesla You know you are you’re a genius what you’re coming up with works because he and he told me that the spinal cord actually naturally regrows like a fingernail. But the problem is is that it will grow after like 200 years. So we all none of us are alive at that point. So what he does is he uses to find that resonant frequency to vibrate the spine in a way that it starts to regrow at a faster rate. So after eight weeks of therapy the dog can walk again. It was an absolute miracle and the fact that it happened with sound was like just even blew my mind even more. So there’s tons of things that when it comes to sound now obviously I’m not doing anything that crazy I’m just mixing rock music. But still there’s that science in it. So everything that I just said is pretty technical you know. But I wanted to find a way with this book. My challenge was is that I didn’t want to get overly technical with people I didn’t want to talk over their heads.

[00:50:34] I didn’t want to do anything like that but I also didn’t want the overly technical people to read what I wrote and then be like this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about side needed to find the middle ground there. So I think those were my two biggest struggles for sure.

[00:50:48] I’m so glad I asked that question the answer is he is pretty cool.

[00:50:53] It’s either that I mean it blows my mind the whole and I know that you’re a big believer in the law of attraction to and that’s kind of like I’m a huge believer in the law of attraction but when I had when he had explained all of that to me and I’d seen that that was like my big click moment to this stuff really works because they say that that thoughts are just waveforms and frequencies that happen in a different area that we can’t hear. So when I think about the science of resonant frequencies you know things that resonate create more vibrations or things being out of phase. You know like maybe that bad thought you had you can create a thought that’s the exact opposite. Maybe you can put that out of phase to get rid of that and I started thinking about things like that and I didn’t have any money at the time. I mean literally no money. My girlfriend was really upset. There was just no way that we could pay for this it was $2000 and I was like listen it’s going to be OK. Like I absolutely promise you and this is when I was like really just big in the law of attraction really optimistic and stuff like that. And what was going to cost 2000 the dog’s treatments getting us eight weeks of noninvasive treatments they just put a sound machine on his back for 15 minutes for eight weeks twice a week.

[00:52:07] The vet was eight thousand but he was 2000 for his it was two. Yes.

[00:52:13] And one night I got really hard she started. She broke down. She started crying. Was Like there’s just no way like. And I was like babe. I’m telling you I don’t dick just believe me it’s going to be fine. I know it’s crazy. But like I just know it. And just then I got a text from a client that had bailed on me like two three years prior to. We were in the middle of a project and she really wanted me to work with her son again.

[00:52:34] She was like you know I’m sorry I kind of lost. I lost my money and I should’ve communicated with you a little better. I’m really really sorry. I really want you to consider working with us again. I know that I owed you a little bit of money in the past. I just pay Palio $2000. I really hope you’ll accept it is it a pausa to work with me again. And if not at least accept as the as an apology. And it happened like I mean within 10 minutes. So for me that was a huge like Law of Attraction moment because I was like oh wow this this stuff. You know it works so it’s it’s very scientific. And being in the audio side I feel fortunate enough to understand the way that those waves those wave forms in those frequencies and harmonics and what those relationships mean in the audio world that I I know that that’s the same way it works with the way the mind works because they’ve measured it. You know I mean we know that the thought is a frequency. So it’s pretty it’s really really interesting to see. That doesn’t always work for me though because I feel like I’m biologically I have a disposition to be pessimistic as you know. But when I am optimistic and I get it I can kind of manifest the things that need to happen. But it’s it is it’s I’m really really cool stuff.

[00:53:51] So quote Now I want to go interview someone else who’s like doctor that or their dog or people who are doing research on this.

[00:53:59] Yeah. I mean I we talked about so much and I told them I said you know you need to do this on humans and he said the FDA blocked me you know. And I told him I said you have to I think his only chance is to leave the country go do it on a human somewhere where will be OK to do it you know make the results go viral and launch the Kickstarter to where they have to listen because the problem is is the way that things work that’s all conspiracy theorist don’t know but a lot of people make a lot of money selling metal shares. And if you step on their toes there’s going to be. That’s the stuff that gets in the way of progress finance. Unfortunately financial free market does get in the way of progress sometimes and with corruption and stuff like that so I do want to see what he does next. And we have been in contact here and there every couple of months you know we kind of we kind of talk and I say Well when you come in when are you coming out to Asia or Australia or wherever to do like this thing. I’ll be out there with the camera.

[00:54:53] So that’s. Yeah. And I’m really really cool.

[00:54:57] Sphere’s C-notes like I feel that way now about like me industry and dairy and pharmacy obviously pharmaceutical companies. You’re kidding right. Shocking but even dairy like me like they’re huge industries. Sugar like they have this huge influence.

[00:55:15] And what I like Newley and I watched all these documentaries and I’m like why don’t people know by now I hear you and I think that comes from the from from not only I guess my personal opinion. I totally respect the the conviction that it takes to go vegan and I totally respect where that comes from especially in the United States given the amount of things that they do to animal products and stuff like that. But I don’t necessarily think that I see. I see some people I have some big and friends that have like the rigid stance that it’s unnatural to to eat meat and I say you know I don’t think that it’s necessarily unnatural I just don’t think that it’s necessarily the best thing that you can do especially in the States. I feel much safer being in Thailand and you know I go and I get chicken and I know where the chickens out there in the coop it’s been raised out there it’s a farm it’s a local farm you know I feel a little less guilty as well. I’m kind of doing that but I completely agree with with it is a much healthier decision and a much healthier lifestyle. And it’s because of again I’d say you know the kind of the free market aspect free market is a beautiful thing but it becomes perverse in some ways where it’s allowed to be bled with corruption and you get you get if you don’t regulate certain things there are always going to find a way to make profit more. Right.

[00:56:38] You know and I think that’s where we’re profiteering and stuff like that but let’s not get in my inner Carl coming out and this is going to turn into a rant fest. I have to suffer it. Well your personal rants. Am I next. My next best selling book will be me with a tinfoil hat on. And I like seeing dogs around the country with finalists. Why you shouldn’t why you should live in the woods with nothing but you’re gone and the rodeo and hysteria. Going to have an array you. What do you face something what do you call it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:15] Greta Oh Faye it’s in our face so it’s what does it how to fish is something outface polarity is how they refer to it and think which is cool. It works for people too. You know people can be can be in and out of phase with each other and stuff like that Silverleaf like polarity things attractants and stuff like that.

[00:57:37] Well I find sometimes too like when I go into a building and they’re just playing music that I like I’m instantly in a better mood and I think why don’t I always have music running in my house. And then I still don’t do it which is weird. I need to do it. But like just the music can put you in a great mood or a bad mood or any kind of mood it’s so powerful.

[00:57:55] There really is. And what’s even more interesting is you know just talking the other day about the way the way we perceive things. Art is perception almost 100 percent of the time.

[00:58:08] And like my girlfriend I just finished watching House of Cards and I had you know kind of brought up the point where I was like isn’t it so interesting how we can watch a show like this where the main character is clearly evil. You know he’s clearly doing the wrong thing or you can watch homeland where you know like Brody I don’t know if you ever saw a show great show but they He’s a Marine and the whole time you’re wondering he was a prisoner of war for eight years and the whole time you’re wondering is he a Marine or was he turned terrorist. And a flip flop will botch. But here’s you know that’s another example and then breaking bad. You know watch a schoolteacher who decides to cook meth but you find because of the lens that you’re watching it through the perspective you find yourself rooting for these for these people who you would normally not reforming. You know so it’s pretty interesting to think about it in that regard. But I always take that as a step further with music. To me it’s you know I remember hearing a love song before you were ever in love. It was just a song you know or when you hear a love song after you’ve gone through a bitter breakup that’s not a that’s not a happy love song anymore. You know I mean that’s something different. So it all depends on mood and where and where you’re at that you kind of perceive what you hear and see differently.

[00:59:20] So it’s it’s really really interesting and from a marketing standpoint you should really keep that in mind because think about how that person is going to perceive what you’re putting out there. You know and really think about about your your market. You know I know that someone with x y z personality type is going or that’s going through some type of situation or maybe that are from a different area. I know that they’re going to perceive something that I’ve put out there differently.

[00:59:46] Yeah I think that’s a great point. It’s really keep in mind not just your audience that like we talk about like the psychographic of your audience.

[00:59:53] Like where are they psychologically right now and make sure that the way that you write and communicate with them is is optimized for that.

[01:00:02] Yeah and that’s kind of what I had to do with a lot of my sales copy of my books because my audience their home recording guys because where were you the era that we live in now. We can cut it like I’m here on the next day. Yeah I mix my records there’s my fader that replaces my giant con. Here’s my laptop and there’s my interface.

[01:00:27] Wow. And all of like that analog gear that I had in my studio you know all of those big fancy knobs and that giant console you know huge I don’t need it anymore because it’s all available digitally so it’s a cool time but because of the music and music not selling because of you know things like you know pirating and streaming being so young and stuff like that the artists are taking control of their own recordings and they don’t know how to do it yet. So I know that my my audience are artists and I you know I’m an artist myself obviously a musician myself and I understand these people. They are the they are 10 percent ego and that’s what you see 90 percent insecure because that’s just the plight of the artists. You know it’s the creator it’s the you know the depressive or things like that. So because of that I know how to write to them. You know I know how to communicate to them so I know that I would teach them something differently than I would teach somebody else who you know wasn’t an artist that wanted to learn like somebody who is just doing recording because they weren’t a musician would learn in a different way.

[01:01:36] Interesting. Yeah I love that. There really is a lot of talk in the song.

[01:01:42] I know I know this might be like officially are long as my longest party ever but I don’t want to wrap it up it’s so good. So I wanted to maybe a little selfishly ask you a bit about the course and what did you like from the course and even what could I do to improve it.

[01:01:59] Oh I loved it. It was easy it was easy to follow. You showed the results right away. You know what do you mean. It felt because you showed me that other people have done this you showed me right off the bat. I mean for me it was easy because I’ve known you for so long I have known you since the first episode of copy that pops. So I’ve watched you develop into this so so because of that I have known you so I I know that your. You come from a similar place. You know I know your beginnings. You know your humble beginnings so to speak.

[01:02:34] But when you showed me that it wasn’t just you that you weren’t just some you know anomaly that was able to do this and you had other people that were able to do it that also came from kind of humble beginnings as well that really gave me you know kind of confidence to see to see what happened. I really like the way you went in the you know category selection the the Google Docs slash you know express Excel sheets with being able to kind of recognize different categories and studying different people. I was really able to kind of follow that that nicely and also see what were the things that they were doing that I think I could do better. You know I was I was really able to kind of take that a little bit differently beyond the categories thing you know with saying like like who’s who’s doing what. Can you tell me the thing that you mean. So like I actually read some of these people’s books you know and saw like OK what are they doing. You know I like I knew that my book was only going to be sure. I knew that it was only going to be 40 pages. I did have a leg up so I didn’t have like the whole 30 day start to finish because I had written a chunk of it and I done some drafts and blog posts and stuff like that. So I had a little bit more time to research which was good. The category selection was really big for me it was fairly simple with the category selection because of my very niche industry.

[01:03:59] You know I kind of feel like if I had that part figured out. But I completely understand or relate to the people who didn’t because like I said I’ve been on the news since 2014 so I was I was doing the run around to say I said I was good ways that I think that that you could improve it. I would add the stuff that I said about kind of talking within the forums where people are hanging out and maybe give different examples on how they can they can give to them outside of the book you know stuff like that. I don’t know if you saw something you would like to incorporate that that’s probably just maybe maybe my thing is give give to the audience you know search services for this kind of thing.

[01:04:42] Well maybe even grab some screenshots and things that you did that were effective I could added inside. Yeah.

[01:04:48] Now for sure I think I think that going in there and offering people the book and letting them know what your goal is. You know my goal is this for you. I’m looking for your time and it’s completely free. I’m not trying to sell you anything you know. That alone got me.

[01:05:03] I mean that got me so many.

[01:05:05] So many people that were interested in you I would say got the most reviews the fastest out of anyone that I’ve coached so far. I know. Like right away because I mean instantly I looked at it in your like Ari 10 reviews like 15 I was like whoa. So I feel like because you gave away so much in the beginning and people who are willing to go and spend a buck and buy it and leave your view are just like very passionate already it’s not like they haven’t really heard about it or hadn’t gotten that kind of tested out beforehand to see it’s value. They already knew.

[01:05:37] I expected a couple reviews from family and friends just they’re not my audience but you expect their support. And I got that. The thing that blew my mind was the strangers the people I’ve never met before faces behind the computer that I had no idea that we’re so grateful. You know they loved what what they picked up from it.

[01:05:57] You know and for me it was just like that was just it was such a rush and high and it was cool because like I said it was the same week as my 30th birthday you know and I was I was sick as a dog but it just didn’t matter because it was just like such a cool feeling and seeing like what people were getting out of it. And this did it. I was just talking to my mom today and she was like you know like I love the place that you are at. You know where you’re at. You know most people when they turn 30 they’re really depressed or they’ve either already settled down into some complacent situation they hate or they haven’t figured out what they want yet. And I think about if I would have turned 30 in New Jersey you know where I was when we first started talking I would have been a mess. I would’ve been driving that a bridge with it with a cinder block and a rope. I hope you know I can’t do this. I was so depressed to hit that kind of milestone without doing anything. And I was so unsure of every single thing and was seeing no progress up until up until recently. But you got to kind of kind of stick it out. And you got to try. You have to try so many try and fail at every single thing that you can. You can do just fail fail fail because if if there’s not the greatest lessons in their I don’t so.

[01:07:17] That’s good advice and I want to jump back to you to what you said about the categories you’re like it’s easy for yours because you are so niche and I feel like that’s a great piece of advice for people to her thinking. I want to write a book. I love to hit bestseller. I feel like to make it easy on yourself for writing easy to know your market easy to pick a category is to go super niche and you’ll have less competition there too. So if you just write like a book on marketing Good luck. There’s like five billion that yeah. But if you could be like marketing on Instagram for landscape companies like you know like no one is competing against you and you can just really deliver crazy value for that specific niche.

[01:07:59] And for anybody who’s thinking of doing that my friend Kevin who mow my lawn is available for hire so.

[01:08:03] Oh yeah. Does he do. $20 no $20 and some pizza. Just tell him I say I heard 35. It was it time. Yeah yeah 20. I kept the five. I got my clock. I got it. Yeah. Know it’s true it’s true niche down as far as as you possibly can.

[01:08:24] You know you can branch out. You know I know like me personally I’m really passionate about marketing I’m really passionate about. I like to win people over on my style of thinking I would I would love it if I can convince the whole world to quit their shitty job and move to Thailand. I wish that I could do that but I can’t. That’s not I can’t start there. I can’t start and be there you know hey quit your job or here’s some marketing advice I. That’s the one thing that I refuse to do. I’m passionate about marketing. I’d love to talk about marketing but I would never like you here Gary that says like you know like oh people want to be Gary the end he says we’ll then build a business first. You know I don’t ever want to be those guys that reverse engineer that go out there and just start saying hey market without having a little bit of success for so niched down build your build that you can always phase those other things in and expand out. So I think that is really good advice especially for the people looking to write books because it’s so easy to say like I love Harry Potter I want to write a fantasy book. I’d have to pitch down further you know. Yeah

[01:09:24] for sure.

[01:09:26] Yeah they see what niches riches are in the niches. And I never heard that. Oh really. I’ve heard niche or go broke. Yeah.

[01:09:36] Knishes

[01:09:37] are in the riches. Yeah. Yeah and I know it’s going to be a rap song. I’m like three with three weeks. Oh

[01:09:41] my goodness. Can that be that entered a copy get right. Yeah and I feel like it’s so much easier on you to as the writer and as the person you needs to pick the categories to try to hit bestseller. And it gives you like you know we talked about a lot earlier in the show of just start with where your audience is at the beginning to get them to like step one like make sure it’s really good and then maybe give them a little inspiration to see what is ahead at step 2. But you don’t to put everything into the first book and if you really know it’s down to just one thing that you’re great at you’re able to then go to the next book in the next book and next X-book on different niches that you’re also strong at that under that umbrella like you talk about umbrella.

[01:10:23] Yeah. And you know it even worked even. It even worked with not only that for me but now that you said it I did it subconsciously but I niche down within my category. I did gain staging. That’s like one maybe Honduras of mixing or sound. I could have just I could have wrote a book and I could have told a story about my dog and one in the face off and the one in the compression I went into like a million different things I have to do with audio but instead I said I wanted to gain staging. Well the game changer that’s pretty catchy and everything has to be around that I can’t move out of that once I kind of niche that down and it kind of writes itself.

[01:11:00] I love that it’s different things son let me see.

[01:11:05] How about the Facebook or are you enjoying the free Facebook group that anyone can join. So even if you’re listening now you can go to copy the pop star Komfort slash Facebook and will redirect you there. So are you enjoying that it’s still. Yes it’s growing every day.

[01:11:19] It’s like I know it is and I’m I’m really sorry that I had met outis what it is I can’t play I can’t think of his name Ali really impressed with Alec some of the stuff he does is an act or oh Sheikh Akbar.

[01:11:34] Yeah.

[01:11:36] I’m so impressed with some of his interactions and his stories.

[01:11:39] You know you want to talk about humble beginnings to go on to be you know on the two comic club and click on us and he is I he’s coming up on the podcast yet from homeless people build seven figure funnels. Yeah it’s crazy.

[01:11:53] I really I need to get in the finals. It’s like the top of my list. Yeah I can’t believe I haven’t I haven’t pulled the trigger yet but that’s on the top of my list of things things to get.

[01:12:01] Well let us know when you’re ready because I mean I know that’s you.

[01:12:06] Yeah expert honestly experts secrets was huge for me to even commit to doing the book because when he said you’re an expert for somebody at something or you’re an expert at something to somebody. I was just like yes that’s what I needed to hear. You know like that I was like just write a chapter one I’m like OK I can write a book like. The problem is I was constantly like in my own head with like those internal struggles that he talks about those internal insecurities I don’t have a Grammy I’m going to write a book on mixing If I don’t have a Grammy and I’m like man I mix good music. You know I know what I’m doing. I’ve been doing this for 20 years on. So it’s like it’s that social kind of proof and those limitations put on yourself for them right down.

[01:12:49] I love that you don’t have to be like the ultimate expert on the entire planet before you can write a book. You seem to be an expert above people to whom you’re writing that you can actually benefit and that just brings that way more in perspective.

[01:13:03] Yeah yeah absolutely. Cool.

[01:13:07] Well let’s see. Any other pieces of advice for somebody who’s listening only me like OK now I’m feeling inspired to write a book maybe hitting bestseller is within the realm of possibility which I really believe in that is just how it is yeah.

[01:13:22] Do you have any other pieces of advice getting a person just to do it get the course and do I love I just get the course and do it. That’s it.

[01:13:31] You know that’s that’s that’s it. Don’t don’t waste time. You know it’s just that that’s it. I

[01:13:39] know it’s not it sounds so simple and like know I hate when I see like some of those like Gary videos where he’s just like you know kids just just go out and do it I’m just like x ray like you know but it’s just true. It’s just something you’re just going to have to start somewhere. And it’s just one step at a time you know.

[01:13:59] Yeah that’s one thing for for me with the book when I wrote my first book I thought I could take 30 days or I could take 30 years take 30 months but just decide doesn’t have to be 30 days. You know it can be eight weeks I’m I’m kind of now pitching eight weeks of a breakdown but you could then take those eight weeks and make each week two weeks long. So you can do it in 16 or you can go faster and do it in four weeks and just kind of like do you two weeks at a time kind of thing so you can adjust it based on your own thing. But you have to just commit and move forward.

[01:14:30] Actually you know I have my big one and I have to give a huge thank you.

[01:14:36] Oh. This was this was the big the big kind of push because everyone what you just held up who was listening to something that is Shandley do Mazas M.E. Journal and I had said I would give anything for that.

[01:14:50] But like I couldn’t get it shipped and you know anything like that all the way to Thailand. You were just like what’s your address and send it right away. And I have the worse day in the entire planet. I mean the app like it’s horrendous. And I think that’s part of it. It’s something I should also embrace because I think that’s part of the creativity. Because my mind’s always going like this all the time always thinking of different things but because of that I can never stay focused. And when I got that book and just started like keeping track of it I was really able to kind of buckle down and I mean it works and what is it like 100 days so it’s 10 10 10 days sections. And by the end of 10 days I had launched my web site took 10 days to launch the Web site and I did the majority of the work in those 10 days. Everything else was all planning for the last three four years beforehand which was to be frank bullshit because I need it.

[01:15:43] You know he was really well plugged the mass Street Journal from John Ladyman my girlfriend that I want to be in the frame so I just looked down and she’s crawling underneath. Oh OK.

[01:15:59] Yes. And I’ll have to shut up. Charlie Demus was on his podcast twice so far I’m forgetting the episode numbers off the top of my head some somewhere in the 50s. So off to all those out on the show notes.

[01:16:09] Melissa Utaka was such a huge honor.

[01:16:11] And when I when I edited the audio for oh yeah I know you were helping edit the audio and I was like I was like oh my god I can’t believe I’m editing like Jay Oldys vocal right now because and it’s so funny because coming from the musical world if I said any other producer or like dude I’m editing this voiceover they’d be like really you know it’s a single vocal voice you know the song has like 100 tracks at it like one well but it’s like coming from the entrepreneurial area and listening guys like Palin and stuff like that. That was the most nervous Ive ever.

[01:16:44] Q The vocal because I just like I need him to sound perfect. You know it’s one of those things you think you know he’s yeah he’s the technical point.

[01:16:56] I would say King of podcasting if you’re in on it. Yeah. Or Tim Ferriss I mean he’s one of the kings of this thing.

[01:17:03] Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

[01:17:06] Well and then. Oh yeah. I want to Melissa you Tucker who’s in our mastermind group she also was on the show I think episode 6 so I’ll link that out link out links to your book which people can find at copy the pups dot com forward slash Tom that will redirect people already Amazon and see your website and all the gifts ex-pats of cats will link out of them.

[01:17:30] I have a ton of stuff I have Tom-Kat media which is where I put you know my music and I build websites for people stuff like that. Digital recording school is my online recording school platform. I also are on the podcast recording studio podcasts. Which is which is cool. Just we talk about recording and stuff like that. And then I have the factor with cats just in Thailand so. And then I have a no other secret podcast I’m going to tell anybody about where I bitch about politics with my friends and it’s credibly profane. So one day I might share that with you. If it is secret so people can’t find it on iTunes Sikri I don’t want to I don’t want to put my name out there yet but it’s a fun thing where you sit around you know have a couple of beers with some friends from all over the world and you know curse like sailors and bitch about politics. It allows me to get that out of my way so that I don’t have to go and do that on Facebook and I keep your image a little bit more clean. That’s amazing. So yeah I got a lot of stuff going on but it’s it’s fun. You know it’s really really fun to just do all of that stuff and not worry about I stopped worrying about which one is going to make me money or which one is going to take off or anything and I just like just do it throw it out there and then whatever works works. And if it doesn’t you’ll learn you always just stay learning.

[01:18:51] That’s so true. You win or you learn right.

[01:18:54] Yeah I like that. I like that.

[01:18:57] That’s that’s a song right there.

[01:19:00] Oh yeah. That’s a song right. That’s right it’s Yeah yeah absolutely. Writing that it’s awesome.

[01:19:08] Thank you so much. I think so. Over there. What time is it in Thailand. 11:53. OK. OK. Almost night we’re going to you. It’s only 10am over here but I well yeah. All right well I should let you go. I had so much fun.

[01:19:24] And thank you so much for everything. Orce mastermind groups and being Laden episode were having me on the episode I should say.

[01:19:32] My pleasure. We’ll do a round two. We’ll get more risque with our topics.

[01:19:37] Yes sounds good. OK. All right good night. Bye.

[01:19:41] Well thank you so much for listening to this episode with Tom camp. I just had an absolute ball. It was great to catch up with them and I didn’t even realize how long that our conversation was going. I hope you really got a lot out of it. I definitely did. And I hope that he inspires you in some way to keep on pursuing what you really love and working on things that fall under that umbrella for you whatever is really your true passion. What are things you can do so that it really falls under that umbrella and keeps on growing the brand around what you’re all about. So I’d love to hear any takeaways or something that really resonated with you in this conversation. Please ping me on social media at laptop. Laura and I’d love to hear it. And then one last little calls to action. I would love love love if you would mind taking the time to leave a review of this podcast on iTunes if you have a minute. So I thought I could start reading out a couple of reviews that I get just to think you. So someone named Doug. I don’t see his last name but he said this is a very informational podcast on copywriting. The host is great and the show has a nice flow. Great show. So thank you so much Doug I really appreciate it. And I actually have two negative reviews. I’ll read part of one that I thought was really funny. So someone named Dana said I find the topics this podcast covers very valuable.

[01:21:07] But the host has an annoying voice. Laura I’m not trying to be mean but I recommend doing some voice work for your listeners. You sometimes sound ditzy and all over the soundboard. So thank you Dana for that constructive criticism. I’m terribly sorry that you find my voice annoying but not too much I can do about that. And I’m so busy trying to provide value to people and grow my business. I don’t think I have time to do any voice work but I appreciate the feedback and you’re taking the time to leave a review. You know even if they are five stars I still appreciate it. It’s feedback positive or negative that can help me do better. So if you don’t mind finding it on iTunes and leaving a review I’d really appreciate it and maybe I’ll shout you out on a future episode. All right. Thank you guys so much for joining us.

[01:21:53] And until next time this is Loret reminding you to write copy that pops.

[01:21:59] Thanks for listening. To learn more and find additional resources. Visit w w w dot copy that pops dot com please subscribe rate and review with your enjoying the show and we’ll see you next time. We go. Adding. Great to see.

[01:22:29] When we don’t.

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